Individualism
Dictionary.com says:
// ISOLATION //
// INDEPENDENCE //
// IMPORTANCE //
(sorry about the daisy bullets ... couldn't get it to do anything else)
- The pursuit of individual rather than common or collective interests.
- Belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues of self-reliance and personal independence.
// ISOLATION //
- People know who you are, but don’t know you as you are.
- Very few people have access to your life → Sunday is the extent of your “public” faith
- Accountability regresses to mere disclosure (we want people to know what we tell them, but not pressing, correcting, rebuking, and exhorting us)
// INDEPENDENCE //
- You pride yourself in your ability to deal with your own problems and challenges without help from others.
- You don’t think you need people to grow spiritually (that’s between you and God
- You are afraid that if people knew the real you that they would judge or reject you
// IMPORTANCE //
- You have confused importance with significance
- You tend to measure your growth by how much you know
- The busyness of life keeps you from mission and community → Your wants and goals are functionally prioritized above spiritual formation and mission.
(sorry about the daisy bullets ... couldn't get it to do anything else)
posted by Will | 2:09 PM
9 Comments:
I must confess a couple of things: I haven't listened to Walker's sunday sermon; and I am a important independent isolated individual. I read the bullet(daisy) points and my mind wanders to Matthew 25:1-13 (parable of the ten virgins) indicating we are responsible for our own spiritual condition. Where I find difficulty in this is the balance that is needed to be a virtuous individual. I either focus to much on myself or to much on other people...where is the balance? I present that more as rhetorical, but what do others think of this process? How do you apply balance?
anonymously submitted by Nate a.k.a. "door"
Balance…I have been pondering this in light of a recent conversation. When considering balance, an image of the scales of justice - right and wrong come to mind and create this frame work around my goal. I often feel trapped in the struggle for perfection – for perfect balance. What if, instead of trying to achieve balance, we would work to choose what is appropriate to our situation as the Holy Spirit guides? For example, there is a season for self introspection and “inner work” and then a time to open outward – reaching and sharing ourselves with others for their individual benefit and the benefit of the Body.
…just a thought…feedback?
Cindy
Hmmm, you're right Nate, we do need to be responsible for our own spiritual condition. But, I wonder if being in healthy community isn't part of being responsible for our own growth as well. Part of being a "virtous" individual is being selfless and serving others. In a healthy community everyone would serve each other, so each of us would be taken care of within community while we are taking care of others. God designed us to be in community as He is in community with Himself. That's not to say there's not a sort of balance involved. Letting people walk on us and take advantage of us in the name of community would be foolish as well. Problem is, in my own experience, allowing people to walk all over you and being a people-pleaser is still a selfish action, as we are more worried about how people view us and less about the pushy person's actual well-being, which may mean saying no to that person.
As sinful humans, we naturally default to self-centeredness, and as Americans we have magnified that by calling it the "American Dream." As I think about Will's message and about where I fall short as a me-centered self-absorbed individualist, I realize more and more that individualism has been engrained in me. I have embraced it whole-heartedly, so that I can barely even see how it really works itself out in me. That's why we need Jesus to show us our sins, as painful as that may be, so that we can repent of them.
It's an interesting circle. We need to be close to Jesus so that we can be selfless and have good community, and we need good community to draw us close to Jesus!
Another thought I'm having is that we need to remember the place of community. We need to push ourselves into good community and fight against our selfish ways. And since we are so entrench in our selfishness, we need a lot of pushing to get us out. But community is not the end goal here. God's glory is! I don't think Bob and Will and JD are pushing us towards good community it's the end all to the Christian walk. Good community is vital to our ability to allow God to glorify Himself through us, both communally and individually.
Thoughts?
"We need to be close to Jesus so that we can be selfless and have good community, and we need good community to draw us close to Jesus!"
I'm not sure what this means, but I don't agree with it. Only by being intensely individualistic can you become selfless and experience community.
The problem with the church is not that Christians are individualists. Individualism is healthy. The problem is that Christians have embraced the heresy that the Christian life is about some ethereal reality. So, they focus on concepts of salvation, justification, etc. The gospel that Jesus taught was individualistic. Individualism and love of self leads to love of others and of God
Christians seem so needy and weak. Jesus has a pretty simple message. I would take Christians a lot more seriously if they would stop cowering in their church groups, examining internal psyches ad nauseum, and talking in circles. Jesus is a powerful person. His followers should follow his example and live in this world. Be part of his kingdom here and now. You don't need to be close to Jesus in order to feed the poor or to love those who are around you. Rather, by feeding the poor and loving those around you, you become close to Jesus. Because in those actions you are part of the kingdom of God. Jesus lived as he taught - as one having power and authority. Christians should stop all the dithering and live like Jesus did.
Hey (anonymous), you have some things here that are worthy of conversation. I'd like to respond to a few of your ideas, but it would help me to know who you are/where you are coming from.
It doesn't sound like you go to Coram Deo (since you are kind of ripping on stuff that we actually value and do). Do you beleive in Jesus (you refer to Christiansas "them" at times)? Anyway, I'm up for some dialogue on this if you are interested, but a little info on you would be helpful.
"Only by being intensely individualistic can you become selfless and experience community."
Think about that statement for a bit. Does it honestly make sense that making your own self your highest priority leads to loving others? Jesus wants us to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44). Now, if my highest goal is to love my self, why in the world would I want to love someone who's agenda is to tear me down? Individualism's outcome is never the love of God and others. That would be like saying walking away from someone brings me closer to them. No, the outcome of intense individualism is pride, which is the worst sin, I believe, and the sin that got Satan kicked out of heaven.
I do agree with you that Christians need to stop holeing up in church groups waiting for a "Left Behind" rapture to take us out of this sick sick world. We have been sent into the world even though we are not of the world (John 17:14-16). But I think if you spent some time at Coram Deo and other like-minded churches you would see that our focus on community is not an inward focus. You should give Coram Deo and, more imprtantly, Jesus a shot. I think you will see how beneficial and missional good gospel-centered community can be.
Responding to Will
Will, I think my story is the story of a lot of people. I come from a fairly conservative christian background but don't go to church anymore. I have a strong faith in Jesus and the God of the Bible, but I have lost faith in the church (although I think there must be some good ones out there somewhere, maybe your church is one of them). I tend to see "Christian" as a label with a lot of baggage to it, i.e., those people who go to church every Sunday, pay their tithe, support the moral agenda of the right wing, value doctrine over discussion, etc. I find that, in general, I have more in common with people who are non-Christians than with Christians. So, I don't tend to identify myself as a Christian although I do follow Jesus.
I didn't mean to rip on stuff that you value and do in order to be negative, and I apologize if I came across that way. I value free discussion of ideas strongly and enjoy blogs because of that opportunity. Sometimes I can come across a little strong, I guess.
Responding to Travis
Since you quoted Jesus, I'd like to read your thoughts on something else that Jesus said. Did Jesus tell us to love others rather than ourselves? Why not?
If you think it's unfair of me to cop out by answering your post with a question let me know and I'll type an answer to what you wrote. But I am genuinely interested in your thoughts in response to the above question.
Travis, I've been waiting for you to respond so I can try to follow my thoughts to their conclusion, but since I haven't heard from you I'll forge ahead on my own. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
The reason that I mentioned Jesus's statement that we should love others as we love ourselves is to show that Jesus seems to make love of self the beginning of love. In order to obey Jesus's command I have to love myself. And the more I love myself, the more that I can love others. The outcome of individualism is pride, but only in the positive sense of the word because individualists are content in themselves. They do not need others to boost their egos, they seek only to do that which is consistent with their best interests. As Lewis and Piper have pointed out, we sin not because our desires are too weak, but because they are too strong. It is in our interest to follow God; only in following him can we truly realize our greatest potential and find our greatest good.
The pride that you refer to does not come from individualism, quite the opposite. I'm not sure that we can get much out of Is. 14 on Satan's expulsion from heaven; however, if that's where you are refering to, it is clear that we do see the word "I" used a lot. But is that a sign of individualism? Does the fallen one act in his own best interest? Certainly not. First of all, he is thrown to the "depths of the pit." Jesus seemed to teach that when we think that by using others, instead of loving them, we may think that we're getting away with something, but really we are throwing our lives in the trash. It is in our best interest to love others because in loving them we create lives for ourselves that are real and solid. We discover the joy of the kingdom of heaven, the pearl of infinite value. Secondly (back to Satan), what would cause anyone to want to challenge God, to take his throne? I'm not sure what motivated Satan, but in the world around us I do see that often people challenge God because they want to take worship from God and direct that worship towards themselves. Does this really sound like an individualist? A true individualist does not crave the worship of others; he or she craves only that which is in his or her best interest. The kind of person who craves the worship of others is a collectivist. Someone who cares about what everyone else thinks. Someone who derives their worth not from pursuing what is best but who derives their worth from the opinions of the crowd.
Jesus does not call us to be less individualistic, but he might help us to understand what individualism really means. Central to his message is the worth of each human life, which stands in stark contrast to the many collectivist ideas of his time (e.g. Roman idea of the importance of empire). I stand by my statement. Only by being intensely individualistic can anyone become selfless and experience community. Because only by loving ourselves intensely can we learn to love others.
By the way, I have no idea what Coram Deo is like. I have been to a lot of churches with well-meaning people who talk about following Jesus but don't seem to do much to create the kingdom of heaven in the world. The community is comforting and it's nice to have friends, but they all seem to spend so much time playing football together, eating together, reading the Bible together, talking together, etc. Meanwhile, people are hungry and hurting throughout the world and Christians do nothing.
I follow Jesus daily. But I've just about given up on all the churches out there being much more than nice social clubs. The world doesn't need social clubs; it needs Jesus. What does your church do to give the world Jesus?
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