Christians Who Love Baseball
Today when I was driving home from the Coram Deo gathering, I saw a pickup truck with a magnetic sign on the door that read:
No disrespect to these people... I'm sure they're fine, Christ-loving folks. But is this where the Christian subculture has gotten us? It's not enough to be a baseball fan who happens to be a Christian, or a Christian who desires to see baseball players come to know Christ... we have to have a ministry for Christians who love baseball?
I fear that this is the inevitable result when evangelicalism loses sight of mission and of the necessity of living Coram Deo.
9th Inning Ministry
Christians Who Love Baseball
No disrespect to these people... I'm sure they're fine, Christ-loving folks. But is this where the Christian subculture has gotten us? It's not enough to be a baseball fan who happens to be a Christian, or a Christian who desires to see baseball players come to know Christ... we have to have a ministry for Christians who love baseball?
I fear that this is the inevitable result when evangelicalism loses sight of mission and of the necessity of living Coram Deo.
posted by Bob | 1:19 PM
25 Comments:
Perhaps it would do us good to remember what our mothers always used to say: "if you can't say something good, don't say anything at all". The 9th inning ministry passes out free water bottles with labels explaining what Christ did for us, and how to be saved!!! It's a great ministry. And no disrespect to you, sir, but let's not waste time attacking our own.
-a friend in Christ
Not attacking... as I said, no disrespect to these people. I am simply questioning the necessity of such a ministry.
If that qualifies as "attacking our own," I guess mere existence is its own justification.
The mission God has called us to is too important to let mom’s adage prevent us from constantly reconsidering how we effectively reach our culture with the gospel. Jesus wasn’t much concerned with mom’s little saying. He was constantly challenging the religious status quo, telling people they were wrong, saying “you’ve heard_____, but I tell you_____.”
The culture is changing. The way we do mission should be changing too. I’m not that far removed from an unbelieving life and I can speak first hand that water bottles with tracts aren’t that effective. There’s no need to take it personally if your primary mission strategy is tract distribution. The important thing is that we learn from one another, challenge one another and constantly reconsider how we reach our culture with the gospel.
So, how do you reach the hundreds (thousands?) of baseball fans that are in town for the college world series? Do we even need to reach them? How can we speak their language? (Jesus pitched a perfect game?). There is no substitute for relational evangelism. But when so many people are here, I can't help but think we are missing an opportuinity, especially those of us christians who happen to like baseball. The rest of Omaha has pulled out all the stops to welcome all the CWS fans. Why shouldn't we?
Patrick, I couldn't agree more. I think we need to do whatever it takes to save the lost from Hell. If a water bottle with the Gospel message on it sparks one person to Christ it is worth it.
Bob, how can you say that 'evangeliscalism loses sight of mission' ? the mission is to seek and save the lost and the 9th Inning Ministry is doing just that. Maybe you should check them out before belittling their ministry.
This is good blogging... I appreciate the dialogue, in light of Gavin's point of "learning from one another, challenging one another, and constantly reconsidering how we reach our culture with the gospel."
To the previous commenter: you're wrong. JESUS' mission was to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10). OUR mission is to glorify God by making disciples of every tribe, tongue, and nation (Matt 28:18-20). And the question we must ask is: does handing someone a water bottle with the gospel on it make a disciple? The clear answer is NO. Disciples are made in community. Yes, evangelism (even mass evangelism) is part of it. But when mass evangelism is pursued as an end in itself, the mission is NOT accomplished. We need more careful thinking on this matter!
And in response to the former commenter, who wrote, "if a water bottle with the gospel message on it sparks one person to Christ," I ask: IS IT worth it? Is it worth it if that same water bottle hardens 5 more people in their resistance to Christ? This thinking that "if one person comes to Jesus, it's all worth it" has got to be rejected, for two reasons. First, it's God who calls people to salvation, not our strategies, and second, this argument reflects poor kingdom thinking. Coca-Cola does not think that all their expenses are "worth it" if one person enjoys a Coke. They want the whole world to enjoy a Coke. And we are not content with one individual being saved; we want the whole world to know the glory of God.
So may I suggest that we stop basing our strategies on hackneyed cliches and start working from a true understanding of our mission as the sent people of God?!!?
*note- I wrote this at the same time as Bob wrote his, apparently, so if it is a retread I apologize.
Anon(s), if you'd check out our website, you'd see that 'disdain for the Christian subculture' is our sixth core value...
Seriously, it is not the hearts of the water bottle dispensers we take issue with, it is their method. Obviously, we individually work with a finite amount of resources- money, time, energy. At Coram Deo, we are passionate about directing those resources in the way that most glorifies God. There are, I submit, far better ways to spend the money used for a bunch of water bottles- say, helping an individual family in poor Omaha climb out of an inescapable situation of debt.
Re Patrick, I ask you practically- which do you think would make a greater difference: dividing your attention among one thousand people, or focusing it on one?
For a fuller treatment of this concept, check out The Master Plan of Evangelism by Robert Coleman.
What happens if a baseball game goes extra innings?
Bob. I am not a fan of your Coca Cola model. Since when was evangelism like advertising and discipleship like a winning business model? It is true that numbers don't lie, but just worrying about total numbers causes us to lose sight of the bigger picture, and your Coke model, it seems, comes from the same point of view as the people who are handing out tracts: it's all about numbers. Evangelism and discipleship are not like the business world. (If so the consumer Christianity that you and Will are so much against wouldn't be such a bad thing).
At the same time, I would not hand out tracts and water bottles at a baseball game (water bottles and 8:08 pens at UNO is another story). Why not? It does tend to make a lot of people cynical. Also, it has not worked well for me. I am not good at random evangelism. Some people can make friends with a post. I tend to need deeper connection before I can begin to talk honestly about my faith. I have worked at Borders for almost four years now, but just within the past year or two I have begun to intentionally seek out people to talk to about the gospel.
Lane, I like your comments. The little bit of Coleman's book that I have read is great stuff. I thought it would be better named "The Master's Plan of evangelism" because he looks at how Christ himself did it.
Still, there was room in Chris's ministry for feeding thousands of people and preaching to large crowds. Maybe we are not being creative and each of us is overlooking half of the spectrum. What if one of those water bottles ends up in the hand of a guy I sit next to at the baseball game? And what if I get a chance to follow up and go out for a beer and I make a new friend who eventually is a new disciple? You sew a lot of seeds and a few sprout up while others land on rocky soil. Thats how it works.
I don't want to be the middle ground cop out, but is there a way to marry mass evangelism to true discipleship?
The bottom line for me is this: We are to be known for love and good deeds. Will the thousands of people who come to Omaha for the CWS each year think of it as a place for baseball, or will they instead see a city of loving people who follow Christ and want to serve them? Or will they see a city of bible thumpers who cram stuff down their throats every chance they get.
This is good stuff and I'm appreciating the dialogue as well. I feel like I'm agreeing with both sides or at least am seeing where they are both coming from.
Bob is right, mass evangelism as the end in itself is not going to go anywhere. If handing out a water bottle with a tract on it is where it ends, it is useless. That is not making disciples like Christ commanded.
But to comment on what you said Lane - you're right, we can't and shouldn't ever question their heart's intentions, but one could argue that using that money for "helping an individual family in poor Omaha climb out of an inescapable situation of debt" COULD be just as pointless if all the money is doing is meeting their monetary needs - and not any of their spiritual and emotional needs. Again, that would just be a different method that may or may not work at all.
And Patrick just need clarity...you said you "have worked at Borders for almost four years now, but just within the past year or two I have begun to intentionally seek out people to talk to about the gospel", and then follow by saying "What if one of those water bottles ends up in the hand of a guy I sit next to at the baseball game? And what if I get a chance to follow up and go out for a beer and I make a new friend who eventually is a new disciple". What if? That seems like an awful big "what if".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling your intentionality and how hard that can be. I'm learning more and more about what it means to be intentional, and sometimes, with certain people it will take months and years. But I think if we follow Christ's model of discipleship, we shouldn't have to wait to see a Christian water bottle in someone's hand, a Jesus fish on someone's car, or a WWJD bracelet on someone's wrist before we get intentional.
Seriously though I love you guys...this is good stuff. And I mean this with love, but I think anon(s) on a blog is about as annoying as plagerism.
AARON ONUFROCK
2706 BLACKHAWK DR
BELLEVUE, NE 68123
402-960-0346
I suppose that the "what if" was from the point of view of someone who is actually handing out water bottles. Again, I am not likely to do it, but if I was handing them out, I would be keep my eyes pealed. When we handed out 8:08 bottles and pens, I kept my eyes pealed for people in my classes who had the 8:08 pens. I invited a few to come Sunday nights. I am not sure that any of them have, but I actually have relationships with classmates just because I saw them with a pen and was intentional about talking to them. I don't know how 9th inning works, but if they go at it with the mindset of following up and being intentional with a few of the people they come into contact with, then sweet.
I realize that most of the time this type of follow up does not happen with random hand-outs. And I also realize that I am not very good with follow up. But there are some people who are, and perhaps for them, this could be a great way to get involved with people and develop meaningful relationships. It seems ineffecient, yes, but plausibly, i think discipleship could come out of it.
Frock, your attempt at devil's advocate re my alternative doesn't hold water, because you're equating the two methods based on the fact that both might be rejected. But rejecting someone who has thoroughly demonstrated a concern for you and your family, given of their own resources substantially and invested in your life, sharing the gospel in the process, is quite different and, I would submit, more difficult than ignoring the label on the bottle as you watch baseball.
Re Patrick, it sounds like you are just making the same argument over the last two comments for mass evangelism (to sum- hey, maybe it's a start), even while conceding its inefficiency. You go on to say, maybe after we do this mass evangelism we can follow up for some focused work. Why not just focus at the beginning?
Couldn't resist. Apologies... :-)
For what it's worth... I just had lunch with a guy from Coram Deo who was at the CWS last night with an unbelieving friend. He was telling me how his friend was beating up on churches that "advertise" and wondering what good it does. What started the conversation? You guessed it - a water bottle from this 9th Inning ministry.
So, 2 ways to look at this:
1) The water bottle started an intentional conversation between a believer and an unbeliever, therefore it was a catalyst for the kind of evangelism we think is effective, a la Patrick.
2) The water bottle confirmed an unbeliever's skepticism and distrust toward the church, which had to be "un-done" as much as possible by a believer trying to incarnate the gospel by distancing himself from the Christian subculture... to mine and Lane's points above.
i couldn't agree with you more. i, along with you, dislike those christians who have the nerve to go "target" a particular people group, meet their needs, and then try to share the gospel with them. they always try to get on their turf, learn their culture, and speak their language. i wish they wouldn't do that, they're making our job so tough.
what do we call them again? missionaries?
Joshua, while I don't agree with your attempted comparison, I can't help but smile at the not-so-veiled sarcasm. A man after my own heart... :)
Joshua, interesting comment. I too have had similar thoughts from time to time.
When the Army recruiter calls and tries to start chatting with me like he knows me or something, sort of an attempted friendliness that screams out: "I'm trying to get something from you. I want you to join my club."
It's so easy to tell when you're just being targeted. When someone's being too chatty, too interested, you can tell they're about to ask for something... a favor, a loan, etc. It's so disingenuous.
I'm glad I came to Coram Deo because I wanted to and not because of persuasion. It's infinitely more real! no need for second-guessing. Nick Buras
Good comments... I love this conversation. Nick, I see your point, and when you put it in that light, I got the picture of an Amway salesman. Man those guys are annoying, and I certainly don't want to be one.
Lan(onomous)e, I will be the first to admit my opinion on this is pretty fluid and I go back and forth. It is ineffecient, but it can be effective. Is it truely worht it is the question here. I love your question "Why not just focus at the beginning?" Why not? With a little creativity and man-power (fewer items passed out and more people doing it), why couldn't we focus like that from the beginning? Instead of buying water bottles and passing them out to random people, maybe you could buy some general admission, maybe even reserve tickets and hand those out instead of making people buy them from scalpers. Then go sit next to the people you give them too. Strike up a conversation. More awkward? Probably. Less cynicsim on their part? Maybe. Would that be more effective? Would the conversations feel forced? Would you be suspicious of a pyramid scheme?
Last Christmas Day, my church bought something like 70 dozen donuts. Instead of feeding our congregation that morning, we invited them to take a box to people in their community who had to work, like nurses & doctors, firemen & policemen, etc. They were told to just drop off the donuts, saying the donuts are free just like God's grace is free--thanks for sacrificing to work on Christmas. Now, surely this wasn't a glorious evangelism scheme, but hopefully those people were blessed. Jesus may not have commanded us to bless/affect the hearts of every tribe, tongue, and nation, but as we grow in Christlikeness, I think we ought to be looking for ways to affect our communities in Jesus' name. Will handing out water/donuts get people saved? No. Should there be a prayer of salvation on the bottle/box? No. Are we concerned with the needs of the poor? Yes. The people who received free water probably had $5 to buy one, but maybe not. And surely the donut eaters could have purchased their own christmas breakfast, but perhaps they were poor in heart, having to work on Christmas. I must conclude with an old sub-culture cliche that will surely make bob cringe: they'll know we are Christians by our LOVE.
I love this conversation too. One time, out of the blue, this guy I didn't know gave me a picture. It was a nice picture of a beautiful building at night with fountains and lights. I have to admit, it seemed a little strange to just have a guy give me a picture. So, I knew he wanted something. There had to be something on the back... perhaps an invitation, an advertisement, or Jehovah's Witness info. It turns out, it was Mormon info.
How convenient [for him]. Looks like they've got this recruiting thing down to an exact science. They just need to figure out how to get rid of the guy and totally automate the process. I mean, who can resist a picture? They must have hired statisticians to determine the exact point on the curve that most effectively minimizes effort and maximizes results.
Random salesmanship wouldn't do it for me. Maybe it would for some people.
Is befriending people in order to add them to your quota really friendship? I guess it could turn out to be, but it seems fake. I think people can sniff that kind of thing out too.
Nick Buras
If you do it for the quota then no, it is not true friendship. But if befriending them comes out of love and a true desire for them to know Christ and the joy that is salvation, then, yes, it is. What an act of love it would be if our hearts truly wanted these people to know God in the intimate way that we do.
I think that my problem is that my motives are so screwed up, which is why i have a hard time with evangelism in general. I say it is out of love but most of the time I am guilty of wanting to make quota for the month.
Some thoughts:
1) SERVING: I am all for serving people. If people at the CWS want water, and free water at that, by all means give it to them.
2) ADVERTISING: I am all for advertising (tastefully). If you have something that would benefit people, by all means make them aware of it.
3) EVANGEILSM: I am all for evangelism. If people will engage in a conversation about Jesus, by all means share the gospel.
4) CONFUSION: I am not always for confusion. If people do not know why they are getting a bottle of water, or worse, if the donating ministry does not know why they are giving away water, someone (or everyone) will be confused. Productivity will decrease because people will be flocking to the comment threads in order to sort out a suitable service/advertising/evangelism philosophy for the world to enjoy (obscure coke reference).
5) Bottom line: Often the confusion/frustration people feel with these sorts of things is related to undefined purpose. If this ministry wants to serve people, then give out bottles of brand name water. Just serve people. Ironically, that would cause more of a stir than advertising ever would. People would want to know who these people are and why they are jsut giving away water?! Or, if the group wants to advertise themselves, then be clear about what they are advertising (that is, what services/products they have to help people). Finally, if it's about evangelism, then do evangelism.
If this discussion is about the best means of evangelism (which I think it is), then it is largely about preference. And in that case, organizations should vigourously debate how they will approach evangelism. But concerning the way in which others approach it, we should extend grace and offer help. There are dozens of ways in which people do evangelism that I would not want to do. God bless 'em. Someday Christians will look back on us (and this thread) and chuckle as they say to each other, "God bless 'em."
Some thoughts:
1) SERVING: I am all for serving people. If people at the CWS want water, and free water at that, by all means give it to them.
2) ADVERTISING: I am all for advertising (tastefully). If you have something that would benefit people, by all means make them aware of it.
3) EVANGEILSM: I am all for evangelism. If people will engage in a conversation about Jesus, by all means share the gospel.
4) CONFUSION: I am not always for confusion. If people do not know why they are getting a bottle of water, or worse, if the donating ministry does not know why they are giving away water, someone (or everyone) will be confused. Productivity will decrease because people will be flocking to the comment threads in order to sort out a suitable service/advertising/evangelism philosophy for the world to enjoy (obscure coke reference).
5) Bottom line: Often the confusion/frustration people feel with these sorts of things is related to undefined purpose. If this ministry wants to serve people, then give out bottles of brand name water. Just serve people. Ironically, that would cause more of a stir than advertising ever would. People would want to know who these people are and why they are jsut giving away water?! Or, if the group wants to advertise themselves, then be clear about what they are advertising (that is, what services/products they have to help people). Finally, if it's about evangelism, then do evangelism.
If this discussion is about the best means of evangelism (which I think it is), then it is largely about preference. And in that case, organizations should vigourously debate how they will approach evangelism. But concerning the way in which others approach it, we should extend grace and offer help. There are dozens of ways in which people do evangelism that I would not want to do. God bless 'em. Someday Christians will look back on us (and this thread) and chuckle as they say to each other, "God bless 'em."
Thank you, Will for some balance and measured thought. I agree let's serve without the quick gospel verse non-payoff. But, let's give grace to those churches whom feel God is calling them to impact their culture, . .as a missionary (i loved that post) in this way. People will definitely think we were weird in the future when they see our worship bands and powerpoint presentations
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